R v VON EINEM 1984 - Trevor Percival Kipling XN

[Missijk]

R v VON EINEM 1984 - ' Abbreviated' Trevor Percival Kipling XN

Q. Is it standard practice whenever any person is arrested and charged of murder a photograph is taken of them on the day of the arrest?
A. Yes.
Q. During the course of those investigations have you endeavoured - unsuccessfully - to locate another home (that is another house apart from the accused’s premises) where the deceased may have been held captive during the period 5 June to July 24.
A. Yes that’s right.
Q. In the course of the investigation you have naturally interviewed many people.
A. Yes.
Q. I think your first conversation with the accused Mr. Von Einem was on 28 July 1983.
A. Yes.
Q. Did you speak to him briefly at his home?
A. Yes.
Q. Later did you have a conversation with him at Police Headquarters in the presence of his solicitor Miss Jasinski?
A. Yes that’s right.
Q. Did you ask the accused on 24 July at Police Headquarters if he was a homosexual.
A. I did yes.
Q. Would you relate the actual question and answer that he gave.
A. Yes, I said ‘Can you tell me if you are a homosexual?’
He said ‘Oh, what am I supposed to say there? Well, I am gay, yes, but I like female company too. Is that what you want to know?’
Q. Did you also ask him if his mother knew that he was a homosexual?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you relate that actual question and answer.
A. Yes, I said ‘Does your mother know you are gay?’
He said ‘Yes’.
Q I think the accused told you something about his medical condition suffering from nerves.
A. Yes.
Q. I think you then went on and asked who he was being treated by.
A. Yes.
Q. Would you relate what he said to you initially about his condition and then continue with the conversation from there.
A. Yes. He said ‘As I explained to you this morning, I suffer from nerves, er, work tension. I have got no serious disability’.
I said ‘Who are you being treated by?’
He said ‘Dr R. Cowan’, which he spelt.
I said ‘His practice is where?’
He said ‘Port Road, Croydon’.
I said ‘What medication had you been prescribed for this nervous problem?’
He said ‘Serepax, Sinequan’.
I said ‘You would have those medications in your house now?’
He said ‘Yes’.
I said ‘Would there be any other form of drug there?’
He said ‘Rohypnol, which I needed to sleep’.
I said ‘You have told me you own the house at Days Road, is that right?’
He said ‘Yes’.
I said ‘Is there any other property or building you own or rent?’
He said ‘It’s Day Street’ and he continued with ’No’.
I said ‘How long have you been living at Day Street?’
He said ‘Since 22 April 1983’.
I said ‘You live there with your mother?’
He said ‘Yes’.
I said ‘Where did you live prior to that?’
He said ‘Unit 3, 13 Rowney avenue, Campbelltown’.
I said ‘How long did you live there?’
He said ‘Five years’.
I said ‘With your mother?’
He said ‘Yes’.
Q. Just pausing there, if you would. Looking at the street directory, exhibit P16, in particular map 29, we can see the position of the Paradise fish shop marked and there is a small circle around the word ‘Rowney’ immediately to the left. Is that the street in which you understood the accused had previously resided?
A. That’s right, yes.
Q. Now, referring to your depositions, I think you asked the accused about company vehicles and then you proceeded to ask him about his personal vehicle. Is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you relate the question concerning the personal vehicle?
A. I said ‘You don’t have a personal car of your own now but did sometime ago. Can you describe that vehicle to me?’
He said “Hm, a XC Falcon, 77 model. What else do you want to know about it?’
I said ‘Registration and number and where the vehicle is now.’
He said ‘XSK 257. When, I can’t. I can give you the christian name of the man who bought it, which is Valerie. It’s a Russian name but I can’t spell his surname. I can remember his address.’
I said ‘I take it it was a private sale. Did you know him personally or his address?’ He said ‘I don’t know him personally. His address is Spring Street, Royal Park.’
I said ‘Have you ever been to his house?’ He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Do you know the street number?’ He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Could you show us where it is?’
He said ‘No, I couldn’t.’
Q. You then spoke to the accused about mandrax.
A. Yes.
Q. The question.
A. I said ‘Have you ever been prescribed mandrax tablets?’
He said “yes, I have.’
I said ‘Would you tell me in detail about that please.’
He said “I took mandrax some five years ago for sleeping and wanted to get off them but still have a sleep problem and my doctor put me on rohypnol.’
I said ‘When was the last time you got mandrax tablets?’
He said ‘It would have been about 12 months ago.’
I said ‘How many in total would you have had?’
He said ‘During that period?’
I said ‘From when you were first prescribed them until now.’
He said ‘Sometimes it was one a night and sometimes it was one every other night.’ I said ‘Do you have any left?’
He said ‘I have some left but I don’t take them.’
I said ‘Where are they now?’
He said ‘They are at home.’
I said ‘Did you use them all yourself?’
He said ‘Yes.’
I said ‘Do you know what chemist you got them from?’
He said ’Turner’s Pharmacy, Campbelltown.’
I said ’Who prescribed them? What doctor?’
He said ‘Dr R. Cowan.’
I said ‘Is he a personal friend of yours?’
He said ‘He is my family doctor.’
Q. I think you asked the question then whether he knew the chemist who prescribed them and he replied ‘Personally, no.’
A. Correct.
Q. Did you then ask the accused whether he killed Richard Kelvin?
A. I did.
Q. Will you relate that question.
A. I said ‘Did you kill Richard Kelvin?’
He said ‘No.’
Q. Go on.
A. I said ‘Do you know who killed him?’
He said ‘No.’
Q. I think you asked the accused whether he knew Richard Kelvin.
A. Yes.
Q. He answered ‘No.’
A. That is correct.
Q. You then went on and asked him about other vehicles.
A. Yes.
Q. Go on.
A. I said ‘What other vehicles from work do you have any access to?’
He said ‘Well, I can drive any company vehicle but they are also taken by employees. We don’t swap cars.’
I said ‘What other vehicles have you driven from the company recently, say, the last three months?’
He said ‘Well, none. I have just driven my Toyota.’
Q. Did you ask the accused about food?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you go on.
A. I said ‘Do you have any favourite food?’
He said ‘Chinese food.’
I said ‘On a day to day basis what would be the main things you eat?’
He said ‘Cut sandwiches, salad, fruit, apple, banana, orange, mandarin, cake.’
I said ‘What brand of cigarettes do you smoke?’
He said ‘Winfield.’
I said shortly after that -
Q. At that stage we come back to the disappearance of Richard Kelvin. I think you asked the accused about his whereabouts on 5 June.
A. Yes.
Q. Would you go on.
A. I said ‘Do you know where you were on Sunday, 5 June 1983, the night Richard Kelvin disappeared?’
He said ‘I was home.’
I said ‘How can you confirm that?’
He said ‘My mother was home.’
I said ‘How do you know that day in particular?’
He said ‘Because I had the flu and I was in bed for a week, off work for a week. I went to the doctor out our way. I went Tuesday to the doctor, who examined me and confirmed that I had flu.’
I said ‘From what dates were you sick? Do you remember?’
He said ‘The Saturday. Well, I was off sick for - I was only off work for a week but it took three weeks to get over it.’
I said ‘What doctor did you see on that occasion?’
He said ‘Munro.’
I said ‘From what clinic?’
He said ‘Campbelltown.’
I said ‘You don’t remember the dates when you were sick, is that right?’
He said ‘I’ve got a doctor’s certificate.’
I said ‘Was it before, during or after 5 June?’
He said ‘Was what before, sorry?’
I said ‘You have told me you were sick on 5 June 1983, the day Richard Kelvin disappeared. Were you sick before, during or after that date?’
He said ’So, you were not in bed on the fifth with the flu. Is that right?’
He said ‘I wasn’t in bed but I was up.’
I said ‘Did you drive your car on that weekend?’
He said ‘I did on the Saturday.’
I said ‘Do you ever at any time go to the O’Connell Street, North Adelaide area?’
He said ‘Er, yes I do.’
I said ‘For what reason?’
He said ‘There is a supermarket and chemist shop; it is Ramsey’s Pharmacy.’
I said ‘Were you there on Sunday, 5 June this year?’
He said ’No.’
I said ‘Do you know anyone in that pharmacy?’
He said ‘Well, they know me just to talk to, to say “hello” to but not personally.’
I said ‘How come they know you then?’
He said ‘Because I get some prescriptions dispensed there.’
I said ‘What prescriptions had you had dispensed?’
He said ‘Serepax, synactchen and rohypnol.’
I said ‘How recent were these?’
He said ‘Oh, about three to four weeks ago approximately.’
I said ‘What doctor prescribed them?’
He said ‘Dr R. Cowan.’
Q. I think the notes then deal with some discussion between counsel and the magistrate and I think you asked him about his whereabouts, who he was with on 5 June.
A. Yes. I said ‘Who were you with on 5 June 1983 at about 6 p.m?’
He said ‘I was with my mother at home.’
I said ‘What are the chemist shops you have been obtaining items from prescriptions?’
He said ‘Er, Burden. That is all I can think of, and Turner’s Pharmacy.’
I said ‘Would it be correct to say you have a large amount of prescription drugs prescribed for you?’
He said ‘Only for my requirements.’
I said ‘Do you agree that you have a large amount then?’
He said ‘I don’t know what you mean “a large amount”? I only get a prescription when I am running low in what I am taking.’
I said ‘Have you ever been stoned or bombed on the drugs you have been given?’ He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Do you drink alcohol?’
He said ‘In moderation.’
I said ‘What do you drink?’
He said ‘Beer and some spirits, but not much.’
I said ‘Have you ever had memory lapses.’
He said ‘No.’
Q. Did you ask accused about a medicine chest?
A. Yes. I said ‘Do you have a medicine chest or similar at home?’
He said ‘Yes.’
I said ‘What is in it?’
He said ‘Panadol, vitamin tablets. It is not a medicine chest as such; it is a cupboard in the kitchen.’
Q. Did you ask the accused about Airstrip Road?
A. Yes.
Q. Relate that.
A. I said ‘Have you been to what is known as Airstrip Road?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Do you go for drives with your mother at all on weekends?’
He said ‘Occasionally we go.’
Said ‘Where do you travel with her then?’
He said ‘We visit relatives.’
I said ‘Could you occasionally abduct a youth, drug him, abuse him and then kill him?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Why not?’
He said ‘I think it would be unethical for me, I shy away from violence of any description.’
Q. You asked about wages?
A. Yes. I said ‘What sort of wages are you on?’
He said ‘Gross or net?’
I said ‘Either.’
He said ’16,000’ gross.
I said ‘Your mother mentioned you have been working back at work over the last 18 months. Is that right?’
He said ‘Yes, that is correct.’
I said ‘What sort of hours have you been putting in?’
He said ‘Too many.’
I said ‘Roughly how much overtime per week?’
He said ‘Oh, well, approximately 15 to 20.’
I said ‘Is that paid overtime?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Is anyone else working there with you when you work back.’
He said ‘Sometimes yes, sometimes no.’
I said ‘Out of all the things you have told me this morning is there anything you would like to change or whatever?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Do you get on well with your mother?’
He said ‘Yes.’
Q. I think you asked the accused whether he could remember anything about the condition of the body of Richard Kelvin and he answered he couldn’t really comment because he didn’t know.
A. That is correct.
Q. You went on and asked him whether he knew anyone with a car that sounded like an old bomb.
A. Yes.
Q. Go on with those questions and answers.
A. I said ‘Do you know anyone with a car that sounds like an old bomb.’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Do you have access to a building or part of a building anywhere that only yourself and perhaps one or two others use?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Is there anything further you wish to mention at this time?’
He said ’No.’
I said ‘Would you have any objection to our forensic experts examining the vehicle?’ He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Would you have any objection to them examining your home?’
Q. What vehicle were you referring to there?
A. To the Toyota.
Q. ‘Would you have any objection to them examining your home?’ Was it ‘home’ or ‘house’?
A. It is ‘house’. He said ‘No.’
I said ‘In view of that, at the completion of this I imagine that will be done.’
He said ‘Yes.’
I said ‘Have you access at all to any barbiturates?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Would you any objection to the police medical doctor taking a sample of your blood?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘I would imagine he would also take some body hair and some fingernail scrapings also. DO you understand that?’
He said ‘Yes.’
I said ‘I will arrange that shortly. In the meantime would you like to read our record of conversation to this point?’
He said ‘Well, if you have typed what I said.’
I said ‘I would prefer if you did read it.’
He said ‘All right.’
Q. At the time did you hand the pages of the interview that you had typed as it progressed to the accused?
A. Yes.
Q. And did he appear to read it?
A. He did.
Q. I think, having read it or having appeared to do so, he mentioned that there were a couple of things.
A. Yes.
Q. I think he mentioned that you had recorded in the interview asking him where he had got the Mandrax tablets.
A. Yes.
Q. That he had replied ‘Turner’s Pharmacy, Campbelltown’.
A. Correct.
Q. After he read it through did he say that he believed instead of Turner’s Pharmacy it could have been Burden’s.
A. That is correct.
Q. At that time a doctor attended to conduct a medical examination of the accused. A. He did, yes.
Q. I think it was conducted by Dr McCleave.
A. That is correct.
Q. I think at the conclusion of that examination you asked the accused whether he felt all right.
A. I did.
Q. And he indicated that he was a bit hazy because he hadn’t eaten anything.
A. That is correct.
Q. Still on 28 July 1983, after that medical examination did you attend at the accused’s home at 7 Day Street, Paradise, with other officers?
Q. Was the accused present?
A. He was.
Q. Was Miss Jasinski, the accused’s solicitor, also present?
A. Yes.
Q. And was there a search of the house conducted?
A. Yes.
Q. When the house had been searched did you speak again with the accused?
A. Yes.
Q. I think you cautioned him that he was not obliged to answer questions.
A. Correct.
Q. And did you then question him about some drugs that had been located?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you relate those questions.
A. I said ‘ We have found three empty Mandrax bottles. Do you have any Mandrax tablets elsewhere here?’
He said ‘Yes.’
I said ‘Where?’
He said ‘Behind the mirror. Anything I don’t take regularly I put there.’
I said ‘There is a bottle of associated drugs in your room. Can you identify them for me?’
He said ‘Yes. I can. I carry those to work with me and it would have been in the bag I take to work every day.’
I said ‘What are they?’
He said ‘Well, there would be some Sinequah, Serepax, Rohypnol and I think some Valium, but they are so old I would have run out of medication if I took them.’
Q. I think you asked him about Mandrax and the largest number he had.
A. Yes.
I said ‘What is the largest number of Madrax you have had in your possession at any one time?’
He said ‘In what do they come, in 100 in any one time.’
Q. I think while you were at those premises Detective O’Brien in fact located and took possession of some drugs.
A. Yes.
Q. Just before I leave 28 July: did the accused in fact drive a Toyota to Police Headquarters that day?
A. Yes.
Q. Would the witness see the photographs P18, is that the Toyota?
A. Correct.
Q. I think photograph 21 shows the interior of that Toyota.
A. Yes.
Q. Did the vehicle in fact remain at Police Headquarters?
A. Yes.
Q. For examination by Technical Services Officers.
A. That is correct.
Q. Can we go to 12 October 1983. On that day did you re-attend at the accused’s home at 7 Day Street, Paradise?
A. Yes.
Q. I think you were in possession of a search warrant.
A. Correct.
Q. And was Miss Jasinski in attendance?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you tell Miss Jasinski that you proposed, with the assistance of other officers, to seize a carpet?
A. I did.
Q. And did Miss Jasinski indicate to you in general terms that there was to be an objection about the carpet being taken?
A. Yes.
Q. Having spoken with Miss Jasinski about that, did you speak to the accused about your intention to seize the carpet?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you relate what you said to the accused.
A. I said ‘Bevan, I wish to advise you that we intend to seize the carpet in your bedroom. I have already shown Miss Jasinski my search warrant. Do you wish to view that or in fact make any comments about what is going on at this stage?’
He said ‘I object to the carpet being taken.’
I said ‘I reiterate we are seizing a carpet. Further, I wish to point out to you that we are investigating the Kelvin murder. Do you understand that?’
He said ‘Ah yes.’
Q. From that point on did the accused indicated to you that he did not wish to answer questions.
A. Yes.
Q. That was 12 October 1983. We go then to 3 November 1983. On that day did you re-attend at the accused’s home in Day Street.
A. Yes.
Q. You were accompanied by Detective O’Brien.
A. Yes.
Q. And I think on that occasion, arrested the accused for the crime of the murder of Richard Kelvin.
A. Yes.
Q. Perhaps would you read to the jury what you said to the accused on that occasion.
A. Certainly. I said ‘Mr Von Einem, as you know this is Detective O’Brien and my name is Kipling, from the Major Crime Squad. I wish to inform you that I am arresting you and that you will be charged with the murder of Richard Kelvin. I must also inform you that you are not obliged to answer any further questions and that whatever you do say may be used in evidence. Do you understand that?’
He said ‘Yes, well.’
Q. You arrested the accused and conveyed him to Police Headquarters.
A. Yes.
Q. Did you interview the accused 1 March 1984?
A. Yes.
Q Do you recall that conversation accurately and in detail and sequence without referring to that typewritten document?
A. Not accurately, no.
Q. In giving evidence of the conversation which you had with the accused on 1 March 1984 do you ask his Honour’s permission to refer to the document?
A. I do, yes.
Q. Would you relate the conversation?
A. I said ‘Mr Von Einem, as you probably know this is Detective O’Brien and my name is Kipling, we are from the Major Crime Squad and investigating the Richard Kelvin murder. We are here because we understand it is your intention to answer questions regarding Richard Kelvin. I must warn you that I intend asking some further questions concerning that matter, that you are not obliged to answer unless you wish to do so. I must warn you that whatever you do say may be used in evidence, do you understand that?’
He said ‘Yes’.
I said ‘Did you see Richard Kelvin on the evening of Sunday, 5 June 1983?’
He said ‘I did’.
I said ‘Would you tell me in your own words how you came to see him and what happened?’
He said ‘I arrived in North Adelaide from my home with the intention of buying my tea at one of the fish and chip shops there in O’Connell Street. I pulled in to park the car but there were no vacant spaces on either side of the road. I drove to the lights and turned left into Ward Street and left again into - I don’t know the name of the street, do you want me to go on?’
I said ‘Yes, without the map at this stage if you don’t mind’.
He said ‘A lad ran from a side street in my left, across the street in front of the car. I braked and stopped and wound my window down and told this person that he was lucky I didn’t run into him. He approached my door, resting his two arms on the roof’. Q. At that time did the accused give you a demonstration of the way the arms were put on the roof?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you demonstrate that?
WITNESS DEMONSTRATES BY HOLDING HIS FOREARMS AT RIGHT ANGLES TO HIS UPPER ARM, ABOUT LEVEL WITH HIS HEAD.
Q. As if resting those on top of the car?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you go on with what the accused said.
A. ‘I was drinking a can of beer, he asked me for a drink. I didn’t offer him a drink, I asked his age he told me 16. I said that he could hop in the car if he wanted a drink but not in the street to drink out of a can that is. He got in the car and I drove up the street to Archer Street and turned right into Archer Street and asked him if he wanted to drive around and he said “Yes”. As we were driving around he spoke to me about friends of his relating to people he liked which were skinheads and also about people he was having trouble with. I asked him if he would go to my place and he agreed. I drove to my home, we went inside, into the lounge, I sat in a lounge chair. He had a can of beer that I had given him in the car. I can’t recall precisely all the conversation but he was having much trouble with being picked on at school. In fact he was quite upset about these people who were picking on him. The conversation was brought around to other people he knew, Cyclops was one and also some gay people that he knew which I didn’t know the name of. He also mentioned to me that he had been paid money for sexual favours.
Q. At that point did the accused pause in the narrative?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you say for how long?
A. It was only very brief.
HIS HONOUR: The suppression order continues about that last sentence, ‘He also mentioned to me he had been paid money for sexual favours’.
Q. Going back about eight lines you related that the accused said ‘also about people he was having trouble with’.
A. Yes.
Q. I think when you were giving evidence you used the expression ‘trouble’ in the singular. In fact did the accused say trouble or troubles?
A. Troubles.
Q. Plural?
A. Yes.
Q Just after that, just repeat what was said immediately after that in the next sentence, ‘I asked him’.
A. ‘I asked him if we were going to go to my place’.
Q. Go back again and start again.
A. ‘I asked him if we were to go to my place and he agreed. I drove to my home, we went inside, into the lounge’.
Q. After the passage ‘He mentioned to me he had been paid money for sexual favours’ there was a pause and did the accused go on?
A. Yes. ‘The conversation would have got around to hobbies but I can’t recall what he did say as a hobby’.
Q. What he did say or what he did as a hobby?
A. I will read that again. ‘The conversation would have got around to hobbies but I can’t recall what he did as a hobby. I mentioned my harp to him and that I had one and we went to my bedroom where I showed him the instrument. We sat on the bed, I played the harp, he didn’t play the harp although he probably ran his fingers up the strings like most people do. I can’t recall that. We would have been in the bedroom about Hal an hour. We then left the bedroom, went into the lounge, sat down on the lounge, he told me he was Rob Kelvin’s son, I didn’t believe him. He was generally discussing the problems that he had with his friends which I thought was paramount. He then asked me if I could take him home which we, I er, locked the house up and we got in the car and drove down Payneham Road. I bore in mind the fact that if he was who he said he was and being late home that he would get into trouble. I drove to North Terrace and stopped the car in a car park which they call the Palais car park. I had given him $20 with which to get a taxi out the front of the Royal Adelaide Hospital. I can’t remember how many taxis were out the front. There were at least two. He got out of the car, I turned left into From Street, left into Rundle Street, whatever it is, and left into East Terrace then home. I didn’t see whether he crossed the road or not, I did not see him after that.’
I said ‘Now before we go on I want you to clearly understand in relation to this matter. Do you remember that?’
He said ‘Yes’.
I said ‘Did you know Richard Kelvin or see him at any time prior to Sunday, 5 June 1983?’
The question was repeated.
He said ’No’.
I said ‘You have, during earlier interviews told us some untruths then, is that right?’ He said ‘Yes’.
I said ‘From memory now what parts were untruths?’
He said ‘My mother was not at home. I also said that he was not in my home’.
I said ‘Anything else?’
He said, after a slight pause, ‘I can’t think of anything’.
I said ‘Before we continue would you like to give me a reason why, after all the opportunities I gave you, you did not’ -
I should perhaps rephrase that.
I said ‘Before we continue would you like to give me a reason why, after all the opportunities I gave you you did not tell me Richard Kelvin was in your house?’
He said ‘I did not want my family, in particular my mother, to know that I had had Richard Kelvin in my home which was also her home’.
I said ‘Do you recognise the person in this photograph?’
He said ‘Yes’.
Q. And you produced a photograph?
A. Yes.
Q. Go on.
A. I said ‘Who is it?’
He said ‘Richard Kelvin’.
I said ‘What other photos of him have you seen?’
He said ‘The photographs in the newspaper’.
I said ‘Apart from your trip overseas, they would have been in the papers and on television before you left and on your return, is that right?’
He said ‘That is correct’.
I said ’Now, I would like you to answer the next questions in detail, if you wouldn’t mind - detail and sequence. Do you understand what I am saying?’
He said ‘Yes’.
I said ’Now, you have told us that you arrived at your house with Richard on 5 June 1983. What time was it?’
He said ‘Approximately 6.30 p.m.’
I said ‘What were you wearing?’
He said ‘Jeans, shirt, cardigan’.
I said ‘Can you describe these items further with colour, brand name or whatever?’ He said ‘Jeans I believe would have been bare colour, I’m not sure what shirt, and a brown cardigan’.
I said ‘What was Richard wearing?’
He said ‘Blue jeans, a dark navy top, running shoes’.
I said ‘What colour underpants?’
He said ‘I don’t know’.
I said ‘Richard was quite sober when he arrived at your house?’
He said ‘Yes’.
I said ‘Was he sober when he left?’
He said ‘Yes’.
I said ‘Did he make any sexual advance to yourself?’
He said ’No’.
I said ‘How long was he in the house, then?’
He said ‘Approximately two hours, or just over’.
I said ‘As I said a little earlier, detail and sequence, if you wouldn’t mind. Now, from the moment you both stepped in the house, where did Richard walk or sit? In fact, what I was saying to you is to tell me in detail his exact movements while he was in your house. Do you understand?’
He said ‘Yes’.
I said ‘Will you continue with his exact movements, please?’
He said ‘He came in the front door into the passage, then walked into the lounge and sat on the long lounge, the settee. In the lounge he kicked his shoes off. I can’t recall whether he put his shoes on to walk elsewhere or not. From the lounge he turned right into the passage and left down the passage to my bedroom. He sat on the bed. Back into the lounge room same way, then on leaving the same way as he came in through the front door’.
I said ‘So for two hours or so, that is the only places he went in your house?’
He said ‘That is correct’.
I said ‘He was happy about being there, in fact, is that correct?’
He said ‘That is correct’.
I said ‘Why did you give him $20?’
He said ‘To enable him to get a taxi home. I didn’t know if he had any money on him’.
I said ‘That seems like a fairly big favour to do someone you just sat down and talked with’.
I said ‘I was on a good salary, good money’.
I said ‘Why didn’t you take him home or close to home, then?’
He said ‘If he was late home, as he said he was, I thought it would, for me, not to get into trouble if I took him home to his home’.
I said ‘When you were both at your house, 7 Day Street, I take it - ?’
He said ‘That is correct’.
I said ‘When you were both there, did Richard sit anywhere else apart from a settee in the lounge or the bed?’
He said ‘No, only in the car’.
I said ‘Where did he sit there, then?’
He said ‘In the passenger’s front seat’.
I said ‘What vehicle did he get into to go to Day Street and then back to North Terrace?’
He said ‘The Toyota lift back’.
I said ‘Was Richard tired at all?’
He said ‘No’.
I said ‘Only had the can of beer to drink?’
He said ‘Er, yes’.
I said ‘Nothing to eat?’
He said ’Nothing to eat’.
I said ‘Back to Day Street, Paradise, would Richard have sat down only or could he have laid down on your bed?’
He said ‘He could have learned back. I’ll show you how.
The bed is a sprung wire base only. It’s not firm to sit on the edge and is given in the middle’.
I said ‘What covering, if any, was on your bed at that time, then?’
He said ‘Most likely an orange bedspread, blankets. Do you want the colour?’
I said ‘If you wouldn’t mind’.
He said ‘Green and pink check. I may have had other blankets as well, but I can’t recall this’.
I said ‘Did he go to the toilet?’
He said ’No’.
I said ‘Did he go to the bathroom?’
He said ’No’.
Q. I think there follow here a number of questions concerning the deceased’s movement in the accused’s house, where he fell over, lay in the passage, might have dragged himself over the passage, a number of questions like that, is that correct?’
A. Yes.
Q. So we can make it clear to the jury, were you endeavouring to have the accused to explain, in effect, the parameters of what he said the deceased did in the house. A. Yes.
Q. I think although the next questions is expressed in terms ‘He fell over in the lounge, didn’t he?’ In effect you were asking the accused whether the deceased fell over in the lounge.
A. Yes.
Q. What was his answer?
A. ‘No’.
Q. Would you go on.
A. I said ‘Did he lay in the passage?’
Q. ‘Then did he fall over in the passage’.
A. My apologies. I said ‘Then did he fall over in the passage?’
He said ‘No’.
I said ‘Did he lay in the passage?’
He said ‘No’.
I said’Did he lay anywhere apart from possibly on the bed in your room.’
He said ‘He may have sat in the lounge on the floor. As I see to recollect him sitting on the floor with his back up against the lounge.’
I said ‘Where were you sitting then?’
He said ‘I was sitting in the lounge chair.’
I said ‘Which is where in relation to where Richard was sitting.’
He said ‘The chair was on the left.’
The answer was queried by myself. I said ‘Was he complaining of the cold at all?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘He was in your house much later than 5 June 1983, wasn’t he.’
He said ‘He was not.’
I said ‘Is there any way at all that he could have crawled or dragged himself along the passage way at your house at Day Street?’
He said ‘He probably didn’t.’
I said ‘Did he or didn’t he?’
He said ‘Not in my presence he didn’t.’
I said ‘Are you suggesting you wasn’t in the presence for such a time for Richard to have the time to do such thing?’
That was a question I rephrased. I said ‘Are you suggesting that you were away from Richard long enough for him to crawl or drag himself along the passage carpet?’
He said ‘He could have done. I wasn’t with him all the time.’
I said ‘What were you doing then?’
He said ‘I was in the kitchen and in the laundry where we have another fridge getting myself drinks. Also I was in the toilet and bathroom to wash my hands.’
I said ‘Can you think of any reason this stranger to you would have wanted to crawl or drag himself along your passage carpet.’
He said ’No.’
I said ‘When you left him to go to the kitchen or the bathroom or the toilet was he in the same place when you returned or not?’
He said ‘Yes.’
I said ‘What would have been the longest time you would have left him on his own?’ He said ‘When I used the toilet.’
I said ‘Did you notice anything extra about Richard’s dress?’
He said ‘Not that I can remember.’
I said ‘Did he use the phone at all?’
He said ’No.’
I said ‘Did he ask to use it?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Where exactly in Ward Street were you when he approached your stationary car, the Toyota I take it?’
He said ‘At the junction of that side street. I wasn’t in Ward Street. I was at the junction of that side street. The side street that runs between Ward and Archer Street. At the junction of’ -
At this stage the conversation faded. I produced a map of that area. I said ‘Can you show me from this map book or plan the exact location?’
He said ‘Yes.’
I said ‘When you find the spot would you like to mark it with the biro and then if you wish initial it?’
He said ‘Yes.’
At 1606, which is 4.06 p.m., a small X marked and initialled on the plan.
Q. Do you have that map with you?
A. Yes.
Q. It is attached to that document. Can we see the black X at the junction of Marian Street and Boulton Street?
A. Yes.
Q. That is the mark that the accused placed there.
A. That is correct.
Q. After a small break did you proceed with the conversation?
A. Yes. I said ‘Did the lad look as if he was running away from home to you?’
He said ‘When?’
I said ’Now, I take it you were by yourself during the pick up and to your house and back to North Terrace.’
He said ‘That is correct.’
He said ‘Can I say something?’
I said ‘Yes.’
He said ‘When it was reported that he was missing I thought he may have run away.’ I said ‘Did he give you any indication that he was homosexual or bisexual?’
He said ‘His appearance gave me the impression that he could have been bisexual.’ I said ‘What gave you that impression?’
He said ‘By his actions.’
I said ‘What actions?’
He said ‘Hand actions.’
I said ‘Is that all?’
He said ‘The way he spoke.’
I said ‘Richard mentioned his girlfriend to you, didn’t he?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Did you offer him any drugs apart from beer?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘The clothing you were wearing on 5 June, do we have that now or where is it?’ He said ‘I don’t know where it is.’
I said ‘Do you know what shoes you were wearing?’
He said ‘It may have been running shoes that I have a pair of, blue ones.’
I said ‘Where was your mother on that evening, 5 June.’
He said ‘My mother was at her cousin’s at Houghton.’
I said ‘What name?’
He said ‘Alcorn.’
I said ‘Christian names?’
He said ‘Beryl and Ken.’
I said ‘When did she go there?’
He said ‘Saturday afternoon.’
I said ‘How?’
He said ‘My nephew Robert drove her up there as I was cleaning up after a garage sale I had that day and I wasn’t well on that Saturday.’
I said ‘Whose car did Robert drive to Allcorn’s and back?’
He said ‘It Alcorn’s, I think he drove my Falcon.’
I said ‘While Richard was at your place did you touch each other at all?’
He said ‘Yes.’
I said ’To what extent exactly, repeat exactly, did you touch each other?’
He said ‘I put my arm around him as he was upset with his friends he was having problems with.’
I said ‘How upset was he about that matter?’ He said ‘He was fairly upset.’
I said ‘Crying?’
He said ‘He could have been crying, yes.’
I said ‘Was he crying or not?’
He said ‘Well, from what I recall he was sniffling.’
I said ‘You would have a pretty acute memory of his visit to your place with all the publicity, wouldn’t you?’
He said ‘Yes.’
I said ‘I can’t recall that I have missed anything that you have asked me or that I can remember.’
Q. Just pause there. The answer at the top of the page, ‘He was upset with his friends he was having -‘ I am not sure if you said ‘problem’ or ‘problems’ What in fact did he say?
A. ‘Problems’.
Q. Plural.
A. Plural.
Q. Go on with the next one. ‘You would have expected’.
A. I said ‘You would have expected the police to see you if you came forward with this information earlier, wouldn’t you?’
He said ‘Yes.’
I said ’Now, when Richard got in your vehicle at North Adelaide, did he open the passenger door himself?’
He said ‘Yes.’
I said ‘Where was your Esky?’
He said ‘On the back seat.’
I said ‘Did you have much alcohol in it?’
He said ‘Well, it had alcohol in it but I didn’t go out on the Saturday night for entertainment because I locked myself out of the house and had to go to the - to see my mother to get her key.’
I said ‘You are aware that your mother told us you were home at about 6 p.m. on the Saturday the 5th. Why did she say that, do you know?’
He said ‘On the spur of the moment she probably wouldn’t remember what she did on that particular date. Because she does visit her cousin. I don’t know how often but at regular intervals she stays up there.’
I said ‘Alcorn’s house is pretty close to the airstrip where Richard’s body was located, isn’t it?’
He said ‘Er, yes.’
I said ‘You told me earlier you didn’t know where the strip was. Do you remember that?’
He said ‘Yes, in relation to the time when the body was found. I haven’t been to that area for over five years approximately.’
Q. Just going back before ‘airstrip’, you said he had to get the key from his mother on the Saturday. I take it he didn’t tell you how or where he got the key from his mother, did he?’
A. No.
Q. Go on.
A. I said ‘When Richard was in the passenger seat of your Toyota, did he sit rigidly in the seat or did he lull about a bit?’
He said ‘He sat normally in the seat.’
I said ‘Now before we go on is there anything else you can think that happened in the house that we should know about, Richard or your movements that is?’
He said ‘No, I can’t think of anything else.’
I said ‘When did you go overseas and return, the dates if you can remember them?’ He said ‘I left on the 11th of August 1983 and it was around the 15th or 16th of September.’
I said ‘Now as you have described your’s and Richard’s movements in the house and car from the moment he got in the car with plenty of detail, can you tell us what you both said in sequence if you can?’
He said ‘I think I said I will drive into the next street so that he could have his drink. We were under a fluorescent light or a blue or whitish light, bluish-whitish. I honestly can’t recall any specific conversation, although there must have been.’
I said ‘One minute you agree that you would be acutely aware of what took place because of the possible police involvement and then or at least now it appears you can’t remember. Would you like to try a little harder to remember the conversation in more detail than already given?’
He said ‘I think a discussion with things he liked took place and people he knew.’ There was a slight pause again. ‘Or what he liked doing.’
I said ‘What did he like doing?’
He said ‘In relation to his friends, which he had a lot of skinhead friends and punk rockers, just general talk.’
I said ‘When did you first become aware of Richard’s issapearance?’
He said ‘I was home, on television and the newspaper.’
Q. Newspaper singular or plural?
A. Plural.
He said ‘I was home, on television and the newspapers.’
I said ‘When, what date after Sunday the 5th?’
He said ‘Approximately Tuesday.’
I said ‘When was the first time you became aware that the lad was dead?’ There was a small pause again.
He said ‘Probably television.’
I said ‘Would you have noticed the leather dog collar Richard was wearing?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘Now when this all blew up and after the lad had been in your house you would have confided in someone, wouldn’t you?’
He said ‘No, I didn’t.’
I said ‘Did Richard mention any of his friends apart from Cyclops?’
He said ‘He did but I can’t recall their names.’
I said ‘Males or females?’
He said ‘Males, as far as I can remember.’
I said ‘Would it surprise you to know that he was fascinated with and very much attached to a young lady at the time of his disappearance?’
He said ‘He may have well been.’
I said ‘But he never mentioned it to you?’
He said ’No.’
I said ‘I will ask you again. Why didn’t you speak up about all this earlier?’
He said ‘When he was reported missing I thought he had run away from home and that he would turn up. I didn’t want my family, mainly my mother, to know that I did have him at home. I regret not speaking up as I could not force into the future and what eventually happened to him.’
I said ‘Do you know what company taxis were in North Terrace when he got out of the car?’
He said ‘I can’t recall.’
I said ‘Did he ask for the $20?’
He sai ‘No.’
I said ‘Why give it to him?’
He said ‘I gave it to him for a taxi fare to enable him to get home and not walk home.’ I said ‘I am now going to refer to some questions from our previous conversations. Would you like to read the lot before we commence or just the pieces as we progress?’
He said ‘Pieces as we progress.’
I said ‘You will probably remember that you didn’t sign the conversation we had at the City Watchhouse on the 28th of July 1983. You did read it. Would you now agree that it was a true and accurate record of our conversation?’
Q. Was there a pause then?
A Yes.
Q. And then did the accused reply?
A. Yes.
Q. What did he say?
A. He said ‘No.’
I said ‘What parts are incorrect then?’
He said ‘The part with my whereabouts on the night of June 5th and you asked me whether I had been to Airstrip Road.’
I said ‘Now, a last word or two about your movements in relation to Sunday 5th. You told us you returned home after dropping Richard off at North Terrace. Did you stay home for the rest of the evening?’
He said ‘No.’
I said ‘What did you do then?’
He said ‘I went to my sister’s house at Campbelltown with my intention to get her to pick Mum up because it was about elevenths. I didn’t go in because I couldn’t really expect my sister to drive up there that time of the night to pick mother up. So I rang my mother from a phone box around the corner from my sister’s and spoke with my mother and I said I would come up the following morning, tomorrow morning, and pick her up’.
I said ‘Did you in fact do that? If so, what vehicle did you use?’
He said ‘Are you referring to Monday?’
I said ‘Sunday night you said you phoned your mother and agreed to pick her up the next day.’
‘Monday, yes.’
’Now if you did pick her up what vehicle did you collect het in?’
He said ‘I did not pick her up’.
I said ‘What’s the story then?’
He said ‘My sister came to my place at about 9.30 a.m. She normally comes on Monday to visit my mother. I wasn’t well. I told my sister that my mother was still at Beryl’s and my sister phoned Mum from my place and I don’t know exactly the conversation but she would have told her mother that I wasn’t well and my sister arranged to pick up my mother in her car. She then left to pick up my mother in her car. She then left to pick up her husband where she lives and they went to pick up Mother and they brought my mother home at approximately 10.30’.
I said ‘I understand you can tell us your movements from Sunday the 5th for some time after, is that right?’
He said ‘Yes, those that I can remember’.
I said ‘Would you like to do that now or have a bit of a break first?’
He said ‘I’d like to have a bit of a break’.
Q. Was there a short break.
A. A very short break, yes.
I said ’Now regarding your movements from Sunday, 5 June 1983, would you like to tell us about them now?’
He said ‘Yes. On Monday I stayed at home with my mother and she or I - I can’t remember - rang the doctor and made an appointment for me. I left home to go to the doctor, I drove past work because I am the pay master there with the intention of later coming back with the payroll. As I drove past work I can remember that there were several staff cars still there so I went on down to Croydon to where my doctors is situated, I didn’t go in as I couldn’t remember seeing lights on and I think that I was late for the appointment. I then drove home past work. There were cars still there so I didn’t go in. I drove home, I went to Dennis St Denis on Monday night for a 9 p.m. hair appointment which I didn’t want to lose as he does this as a favour for me. I would have got home at around 10.30 and went to bed. On Tuesday morning I had a severe headache and diarrhoea and a sore throat, worse that the day before, so my mother made an appointment for me at Dr Munro, Campbelltown. I kept the appointment. After leaving the doctor’s I went to my sister’s to tell her what I had. I then drove home and went to bed. I got medication on the way home from the chemist, I stayed home in bed including Wednesday and Thursday.
Q. Was it ‘I stayed home in bed’ or ‘I stayed in bed’?
A. ‘I stayed in bed including Wednesday and Thursday until Monday afternoon when I took my mother to Target at Newtown to do her shopping. I returned home and went to bed. Lyn Pratt, secretary from Pipeline Supplies called Thursday night to bring my pay cheque. I cannot be sure if I was in bed Friday or not or whether I went anywhere because I cannot recall if I did or not. I stayed home Saturday and cannot recall if I did or not. I went out Sunday night. I drove to the airport. On my way back into town from the airport I gave two hitchhikers a lift. We got into town, they were not doing anything in particular and I asked them if they would like a drink and as they said they weren’t doing anything in particular and it was a long weekend I suggested that we go to my friend’s place which was Chris Wall. At that stage I had a key to that flat. When we arrived there Chris was not home and we went inside and Chris arrived about five minutes after us. He opened some beer we had a drink and he rang David Richmond to come over and David Richmond came approximately half an hour after. We drank beer, they stayed the night. I left there about 1.30 because I had a dinner appointment at home with Rosemary St John and Illa Hayes from the Heart Society. They came and left my place at approximately midnight. They showed slides of Burma. I went to work on the Tuesday and every other weekday onwards.’
I said ‘What were you doing a few days either side of 10 July 1983? Would you have any idea about that?’
He said ‘No I haven’t got.’
I said ‘There will probably be only one or two further questions from this point so I will hand you the 13 pages already typed for you to read. Now, when you have read them if you want to you may sign them as being a true and accurate record of our conversation. However, you are not obliged to do this. Do you understand that?’
He said ‘Yes. I want to tell you something now that I haven’t previously told you. You haven’t asked me. There were two people in the area when I had stopped the car in the side street’ where the map was produced.
Q. Did you produce that map previously tendered as an exhibit.
A. I did. ‘A woman in a blue coat travelling in a southerly direction in Boulton Street on the western side of Boulton Street who walked into Marian Street. She had a bag. Hand bag or shopping bag, appeared to be white or a light colour, and she walked down Marian Street and there was a man on the eastern side of Boulton Street, cannot recall whether he was going down in a motherly or southerly direction and I think I recall him wearing light coloured clothing and also I was drinking brandy at my home’.
Q. In all your equities have you located any such two people or either of the?
A. No.
Q. Shortly after Richard Kelvin’s disappearance was there in fact a door knock of the area in North Adelaide adjacent to the home?
A. Yes.
Q. Conducted by various police officers.
A. Yes.
Q. After the accused had given that answer did you hand over to him the typed pages of the interview?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he appear to read it at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you then ask some more questions?
A. I said ‘I have one final question. When you heard the body had been found at the airstrip at Kersbrook why didn’t you come forward to the police at that stage?’
He said ‘I felt that a lot of time had been wasted in me not coming forward earlier and having no involvement in that and also my family, as previously discussed, I did not come forward’.
I said ‘I will shortly hand you the final page and there will be a series of questions on it for you to answer in your own handwriting if you wish. There will also be provision for you to sign this record of the conversation. If there is anything you wish to alter or whatever I will record that at the time. Do you understand That?’
He said ‘Yes’.
Q. Eventually did the accused write in answers to some questions at the end?
A. Yes.
Q. But before he did that, did he indicate to you some corrections?
A. He did.
Q. What did he say?
A. The conversation was ‘On p 2, the lower section of the body in relation to the photograph of Richard Kelvin, the appearance of his hair is not that of the photograph. His hair was short and appeared to be standing up’. On p 3 (at a minute past 7) he said ‘Regarding the clothing that Richard Kelvin had on, it had a motif on the T shirt’. P 13, at 7.08, he said ‘You have got here “Coming back with the payroll”. Went back to do the payroll, should have been. P 2, “I stopped the car out the front of the car park” and you got “in the car park” ‘.
Q. So they were corrections pointed out by the accused?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you relate the final few questions to which he wrote in the answers.
A. Yes. I said ‘Have you read this record of interview?’
to which he wrote ‘Yes’.
I said ‘Is it a true and accurate record of our conversation?’
to which he wrote ‘Yes’.
I said ‘Is there anything you wish to alter?’
He wrote ’No’.
I said ‘Do you wish to sign the record of interview?’
He wrote ‘Yes’.
Q. Referring to the final corrections, the accused referred to p 2 and said ‘I stopped the car out the front of the car park and you have got “in the car park’ ‘.
A. Yes.
Q. Go back to p 2, was the accused referring to a passage - this is when he drove Richard Kelvin to North Terrace - where you had recorded ‘I drove to North Terrace, um, stopped the car in a car park which they call the Palais car park’.
A. Correct.
Q. After the interview of 1 March, where you re-interviewed the accused, did you obtain from a section of the Police Department copies of various newspapers and publicity concerning this matter?
A. Yes.
Q. You had not got out any of the press publicity releases prior to conducting that interview of 1 March?
A. No.
Q. Is it correct that following Richard Kelvin’s disappearance of 5 June there was considerable publicity over quite a period of time?
A. Yes.
Q. I am talking now prior to the discovery of the body.
A. Yes.
Q. That has both been the daily newspapers, on TV and the radio.
A. That is correct.
Q. Via the media generally there were requests by the police for people to come forward.
A. Yes.
Q. Were there also pleas by the parents of Richard Kelvin?
A. Yes.
Q. A reward was offered?
A. Yes.
Q. After the discovery of the body on 24 July, was there further publicity concerning the discovery of the body and police needing assistance in their enquiries?
A. Yes.

References:
R v Bevan Spencer Von Einem, Trial Transcript, Adelaide Magistrates Court, 1984.

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R v VON EINEM 1984 - ' Abbreviated' Trevor Percival Kipling XN

References:
R v Bevan Spencer Von Einem, Trial Transcript, Adelaide Magistrates Court, 1984.

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